Socket S1 CPU interchangeability?

 
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VulcanTourist



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Socket S1 CPU interchangeability? Reply with quote

Exactly how interchangeable are Socket S1 CPUs? If a laptop houses a Phenom II (X3) P860, for instance, which other Socket S1 CPUs would be compatible substitutes, only other "P" series or also "N" series? Are there any other constraints beside the socket itself? Can the manufacturer "lock" or restrict choices via the BIOS? In the case of that specific example, would a Phenom II X4 N970 function as a substitute?
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gshv



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Phenom II P860 processor is compatible only with S1g4 revision of socket S1. CPU compatibility is defined by chipset and motherboard, and not by existing processor. In the case of socket S1g4, all boards are based on the same AMD chipset, their BIOS is based on the same AMD reference BIOS, and pretty much all boards support all S1g4 processors. The only limitation is TDP. I wouldn't recommend to go from 25 Watt (like your processor) to X-series mobile processors with 45 Watt TDP, although they may work. N970 with 35 Watt TDP, and other 35W chips should be ok.

Gennadiy
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Neon



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When more information becomes available for the earlier versions of Socket S1, I would request inclusion of the information on the sockets page.

The differences and compatibility (if any) between the 4 versions would be helpful information.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/index.html
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, gshv, and in fact the HP service guide for it has a long list of CPUs which are implied (not explicitly stated) to be compatible, and all of them are TDP 25 or 35 Watts. The N970 isn't listed, so I don't know what that implies.

After looking at that list, I suspect the N660 might be a better alternative, given the large 1GHz boost in clock rate (2.0 to 3.0GHz). It's one core less, but I doubt the third core is more benefit than the clock rate boost. Passmark rates the N660 a bit lower than the P860, but I don't know Passmark's criteria or weighting of them in the final single number.
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gshv



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N970 has 4 CPU cores, and N660 has two faster cores. If your favorite programs don't use all 4 cores then you will be better off with N660. If you have a desktop or another laptop with quad-core processor, then try to run some of these programs, and see CPU utilization. If they use only 1 or 2 cores then get N660. If they use no more than 3 cores then get N870. If they use more than 3 cores than get N970.

Gennadiy
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gshv



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neon wrote:
When more information becomes available for the earlier versions of Socket S1, I would request inclusion of the information on the sockets page.

The differences and compatibility (if any) between the 4 versions would be helpful information.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/index.html

Compatibility part is easy - S1g1, S1g2, S1g3 and S1g4 are not compatible with each other Smile As the first step, socket S1g1, S1g2 and S1g3 pages should be added to the sockets page. Then it will be easier to create a page with differences between these sockets.

Gennadiy
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Wizzard1



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with previous posters, with some additional information-

The S1 sockets are somewhat backwards compatible- The changes made were with respect to the voltage control across the chip.

I can tell from experience, S1G2 will not work in S1G1, and S1G3 will not work in S1G2 or G1, but a G1 processor will work in some G2 systems Smile
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Neon



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Wizzard, that is the sort of information that is useful. Smile
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VulcanTourist



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been researching this a bit more, but still not comfortable with my understanding yet. To back up a bit, my motivation is the acquisition of an HP Pavilion DV7-4263CL, which uses the aforementioned P860. It's a triple-core, of course, but according to the specs here it also only supports DDR3-1066 RAM, whereas some of the other S1G4 CPUs support DDR3-1333 RAM. Since the memory controller is integrated, would that then mean that upgrading to one of those others would also require, or at least allow, a switch to DDR3-1333 RAM?

Also, it seems that the "N" series are described as "standard" power, and the "P" series as low power; is the only difference between them a (generally) lower TDP? What architectural differences if any lead to this low-power designation?

Back to my new laptop, it seems that my usage does benefit from the three cores, so perhaps I may want to steer clear of the N660 as a possible upgrade in favor of the N870 or N970? I noticed, though, that the N660 seems to have twice as much L2 cache per core, 1MB versus 512KB, as the P860 or even the N970 or N870; what types of applications would benefit from the doubled L2 cache?

So of my proposed upgrades, all three allow faster RAM, all have clocks at least .2GHz faster, while one has an extra core and another has one less core but twice the L2 cache and a full 1GHz faster clock. Apples and oranges!

Whatcha guys think? Is the RAM issue actually a problem? Would I be forced to upgrade it as well, might the motherboard or BIOS instead prevent it, or is that just another upgrade option I'd then have? And does one less core with all that cache and clock boost make a stronger argument?

Addendum: I finally got around to checking the SPD info of the existing RAM, and discovered that it's already DDR3-1333! That means that the existing CPU is actually throttling the RAM back slightly from its full potential... just another reason to upgrade it.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did I say that cleared the room so completely?
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gshv



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On-chip memory controller on Nxxx chips supports both DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1066, so replacing Pxxxx with Nxxxx shouldn't be a problem.

"P" processors have lower TDP because they run at lower frequencies, and they tend to have lower core voltage. Internally they are identical to "N" chips.

Large cache should benefit applications that work with large data sets, or move lot of data. For example, ZIP and RAR archivers. I wouldn't worry about cache size. If your application uses more than 2 cores than the benefits of the third core will far outweigh the benefits of larger cache.

Gennadiy
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VulcanTourist



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.

gshv wrote:
On-chip memory controller on Nxxx chips supports both DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1066, so replacing Pxxxx with Nxxxx shouldn't be a problem.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't backward compatible. HP took advantage of that in spec'ing the different DV7 models, since they probably saved some money ordering just one type of RAM in greater bulk even though it wasn't required for every model. There might be some logic in having faster rated RAM of the same type, if that leads to less heat generated. I've wondered about that for some years. When I upgraded the RAM in my last laptop I bought DDR2-800 rather than the required DDR2-667, both on that chance and because the -800 happened to be cheaper right then.

gshv wrote:
"P" processors have lower TDP because they run at lower frequencies, and they tend to have lower core voltage. Internally they are identical to "N" chips.

And of course since the multiplier etc. is locked, you have to settle for the benefit of less heat generated.

gshv wrote:
Large cache should benefit applications that work with large data sets, or move lot of data. For example, ZIP and RAR archivers. I wouldn't worry about cache size. If your application uses more than 2 cores than the benefits of the third core will far outweigh the benefits of larger cache.

Don't forget distributed computing projects. Smile They love a large cache.

I won't be running off to buy one today, since the P860 is still new to me, but I want to make the right choice when the time comes. A N660 was sold on eBay yesterday for $76, and there's an N970 for a few bucks more. I'll have to share a photo when it happens, since there aren't (m)any for those processors here yet.
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chazrw
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wizzard1 wrote:

I can tell from experience, S1G2 will not work in S1G1, and S1G3 will not work in S1G2 or G1, but a G1 processor will work in some G2 systems Smile



I have a HP DV7-1245dx with a Hewlett-Packard 30FC (Socket M2/S1G1) motherboard and a AMD Turion X2 RM-72 (Socket S1G2) CPU - came from HP that way. Confused If S1G2 CPU will not work in S1G1 sockets, how is this possible?
I'm trying to find a cheap CPU upgrade but I can't seem to find clear guidelines to upgrading. Its very frustrating!
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chazrw wrote:
Wizzard1 wrote:

I can tell from experience, S1G2 will not work in S1G1, and S1G3 will not work in S1G2 or G1, but a G1 processor will work in some G2 systems Smile

I have a HP DV7-1245dx with a Hewlett-Packard 30FC (Socket M2/S1G1) motherboard and a AMD Turion X2 RM-72 (Socket S1G2) CPU - came from HP that way. Confused If S1G2 CPU will not work in S1G1 sockets, how is this possible?
I'm trying to find a cheap CPU upgrade but I can't seem to find clear guidelines to upgrading. Its very frustrating!

Aside from finding one that "fits", the most significant issue you must consider is whether the existing heat dissipation system can handle the extra demand of a CPU with a greater TDP. That's not at all certain, even if it's only a few more Watts. Can't say it's true for your HP, but for mine I found that list of CPUs that HP had concluded were compatible with the motherboard and enclosure; if you find a list like that for yours, it would be wise not to color outside those lines! It was a pretty long list in my instance, fortunately.
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