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Motorcycle Boy
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: Define "vintage" please :-) |
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Hi,
vintage = before 2000? or before 1990 ? |
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kosmokrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 4085
Location: Athens-GR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i think before 1980-1990 in computer terms..... |
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gshv
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7898
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Define "vintage" please :-) |
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| Motorcycle Boy wrote: | Hi,
vintage = before 2000? or before 1990 ? |
Early 1980s and earlier.
Gennadiy |
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susl45
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 3179
Location: CHU
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:57 am Post subject: |
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pre-286/68000
mid 80ies is pretty new from vintage perspective
strange then to decide if a chip with copyright from late 70ies and a date code 1989 is vintage, lol
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naked1300
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Austria,
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: |
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i would also say pre 80286.
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dan87951
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Perry, MI
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I would say pre-286 as well. I don't understand alot of these guys listing 486/Pentiums/6x86's as "vintage"... shoot man I'm not that old yet!
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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why pre286?
if we try to define vintage by the intel line (as most collector collect intels)
8088/8086 is more suitable
theoretically , almost everything after 8088/8086 is compatible with it
so for me,i use x86 and pre-x86
i would condsider 8080 as vintage
and 8088 as a modern cpu |
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Katmai500
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 360
Location: Southern NJ, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps the more useful protected mode of the 80386 is the dividing feature between vintage and modern?
Also, the 80386 is 32 bit vs. 16 bit like the 80286 and 8086/8088.
It could also just be that grouping only CPUs 8080 and older into vintage would make the vintage sections of the forum very small compared to the modern sections. |
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| rflynn88 wrote: | | Perhaps the more useful protected mode of the 80386 is the dividing feature between vintage and modern? |
80286 has protected mode ,doesn't it? |
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Katmai500
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 360
Location: Southern NJ, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Yes it does, however it did not have the full capability of 80386 protected mode, and was not widely used.
A little wikipedia info:
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The initial protected mode, released with the 286, was not widely used. Several shortcomings such as the inability to access the BIOS and the inability to switch back to real mode without resetting the processor prevented widespread usage.
Widespread acceptance was additionally hampered by the fact that the 286 only allowed memory access in 16 bit segments, meaning only 2^16 bytes, equivalent to 64 kilobytes, could be accessed at a time.
With the release of the 386 in 1985, many of the issues preventing widespread adoption of the previous protected mode were addressed.
The 386 was released with an address bus size of 32 bits, which allows for 2^32 bytes of memory accessing, equivalent to 4 gigabytes. The segment sizes were also increased to 32 bits, meaning that the full address space of 4 gigabytes could be accessed without the need to switch between multiple segments. In addition to the increased size of the address bus and segment registers, many other new features were added with the intention of increasing operational security and stability.
Protected mode is now used in virtually all modern operating systems which run on the x86 architecture, such as Microsoft Windows, Linux, and many others.
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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another reason to use 8088/8086 as cutoff
is 8 bit vs 16 bit
in the 8 bit time , people used to design and build the machine by themself (such as 6502 , Z80 ) ==> vintage
but
we didnt build 16 bit machine frequently (8088 , 286 etc ), they are too complicated => modern
Last edited by lither on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Katmai500
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 360
Location: Southern NJ, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| True, although the 16-bit CPU's are still lacking the operating mode used by all current x86 CPU's from 1985 to 2011. The 8086 and 8088 are 16 bit but don't have protected mode. So would you include 8086/8088 in vintage or modern? IMO modern should start with 80386. |
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gshv
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7898
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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80386 implemented 32-bit protected mode, that was used in all Windows 32-bit operating systems up to date. 80286 had 16-bit protected mode, that wasn't good enough. For example, if I remember correctly, the maximum addressable memory size was 16 MB, working with big blocks of memory was still a pain, and 80286 processors had a serious bug, that prevented switching back from protected to real mode. This mode quickly became obsolete once Intel released 80386 processor, even though 80386 also supported 16-bit protected mode.
Gennadiy |
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| rflynn88 wrote: | | So would you include 8086/8088 in vintage or modern? IMO modern should start with 80386. |
for me 8088 is a modern design
there is another reason for it
8088 is 16 bit
8080 is 8 bit
build a 8 bit machine is not too complicated. we can make it at home
but building a 16 bit machine is not an easy work
IMHO,8 bit vs 16 bit is also suitable for differentiation of vintage vs modern |
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