Corrosion/rust/discoloring on ES cpu
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JAC



Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare it to the picture you have taken for your site?
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debs3759



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD40 can corrode some metals, so I wouldn't advise that. Having a film of grease or oil on a static metal part (or any other part, when I think about it) can trap moisture or other substances on the surface you meant to protect, whereas on moving parts (such as engines...), that is not a problem as either heat or movement will help remove the moisture.

I don't know however what is good, only what is not.

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debs3759



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I would never recommend using grease or oil to try and protect a chip, there are too many unknown and unpredictable factors. Of course, if anyone knows of a particular lubricant that is known to be safe, I'd love to hear about it (especially if there is scientific evidence that it does not carry the same risks as many other lubricants).
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JAC



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lubricant? lmao
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debs3759



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, I thnk you read that differently to how I meant it Smile
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chip68



Joined: 19 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've seen chips with fingerprints permanently etched into their lids from contact with oils on the skin, which traps salts and other corrosives. The only thing I would recommend is to store them in a cool, low-humidity environment and keep your fingers crossed. I have many chips that are over 40 years old that look brand new, while some much newer ones already have visible pitting or oxidation of the exposed metal surfaces. It's a crap shoot, really.

- CMW
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chip68



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rust requires iron, which is typically only used in IC packaging alloyed with nickel in the form of Invar or Kovar. Neither oxidizes readily. Gold is non-reactive; aluminum and silver develop a patina that inhibits further oxidation; lead and tin (in solder) do oxidize to some extent, but that wouldn't be what you're seeing. Is this just a discoloration, or are there signs of pitting and/or flaking?

- CMW
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x86sniper



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corrosion / oxidation will not spread in a totally dry environment, it requires water vapour (i.e humidity) to spread, which is the case I am facing Sad

Hong Kong isn't the best place to store CPU espacially when my flat is near to the harbour front, the high humidity of the weather and the salt content in the air acclerate oxidation to a amazing level

Simply put a naked goldcap Pentium for a few weeks and you will see white dots all over the supposed-to-be gold Sad
(even socket 423 Pentium 4 oxidize, too Sad )

to overcome this I suggest some method.......

for CPU that is oxidised already upon you receive it, use ball-pen eraser (those erasers that is very hard and perform like a sandpaper) first to rub away all those oxidations, DO NOT let oxidation left on the metal surface, sandpaper also works but personally eraser is easier to control and go into some tight corners

after that some storage method can be taken, you can choose any of them according to your needs
1. store chips in mainboard boxes (works if you have a relatively dry place e.g wooden cupboard / drawer)
2. wrap chips individually in newspapers then go into paper boxes, tissue papers also works
3. use polystyrene foam to cover the metal surface (best if use closed foam instead of expended)
4. for some OEM CPU that freshly pull from machines, they usually got thermal greases and/or a piece of aluminum sheet onto the metal surface, those CPU resist to oxidation for a short time if thermal grease / al sheet not removed immediately
5. for some CPU come with a heatsink with reusable thermal tape interface, keep the heatsink in place, it helps to block oxygen from come into contact with the metal surface
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x86sniper



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chiptalk wrote:
The problem is, the chip I got already had some rust like discoloring before I got it (from previous owner). I don't have this problem with any of my other chips. Doesn't rust like to spread, even if the environment is under control?


oxidation WILL spread if you don't remove them immediately after you get the chip

some of my chips was damaged because of staying in open air, when the chip is in oxidised stage, for too long Sad
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chip68



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x86sniper wrote:
oxidation WILL spread if you don't remove them immediately after you get the chip


(a) No it won't, and (b) oxidation of WHAT exactly? (See my post above re: the various metals used in IC packaging.) I don't think we've established yet that "oxidation" is even what chiptalk is seeing.

Btw, I don't agree with the statement, "DO NOT let oxidation left on the metal surface". It's actually better to leave it on in most cases because it prevents further oxidation. The eraser technique is only good for removing dirt or stains from *ceramics*, and should never be used on metal surfaces because it's far too abrasive.

- CMW
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x86sniper



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chip68 wrote:
x86sniper wrote:
oxidation WILL spread if you don't remove them immediately after you get the chip


(a) No it won't, and (b) oxidation of WHAT exactly? (See my post above re: the various metals used in IC packaging.) I don't think we've established yet that "oxidation" is even what chiptalk is seeing.

Btw, I don't agree with the statement, "DO NOT let oxidation left on the metal surface". It's actually better to leave it on in most cases because it prevents further oxidation. The eraser technique is only good for removing dirt or stains from *ceramics*, and should never be used on metal surfaces because it's far too abrasive.

- CMW


this would be varied from case to case, where the metal in question differ
as the oxides of metal differ in properties

Hong Kong is a humid place and I usually come across goldcap chips that grow green oxides on their caps already
as those oxide is porous in nature, letting it in place only allow water and oxygen attack the metal from the oxidised position
it is a must to remove oxidation in order to remove moisture trapped in the oxide of those metal caps

sometime more abrasive technique need to be taken to remove stubborn oxide from metal surfaces


some picture would explain more I think

the IBM in the picture was oxidized heavily when I got it, it is cleaned to the present look by the eraser technique
for the AMD, the oixidation did not spread, I think it is because the composition of the metal differ from the Cyrix chip, so I left it in place
the Pentium is the result of letting the chip in open air for a long time
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JAC



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chip68 wrote:


(a) No it won't, and (b) oxidation of WHAT exactly? (See my post above re: the various metals used in IC packaging.) I don't think we've established yet that "oxidation" is even what chiptalk is seeing.

Btw, I don't agree with the statement, "DO NOT let oxidation left on the metal surface". It's actually better to leave it on in most cases because it prevents further oxidation. The eraser technique is only good for removing dirt or stains from *ceramics*, and should never be used on metal surfaces because it's far too abrasive.

- CMW



I have stayed out of this so far but I have to say something..

Jumping on exact definitions isnt going to help much as this is an international forum and non english speakers will readily interchange oxidation/rust/corrosion etc. Whatever it is, clearly there is some kind of reaction taking place on the surface.

So.... whatever it is exactly ( and some close up pictures would be nice ) then dont forget the simple fact that dissimilar metals will develop an electrochemical potential between them and the environment those metals in will have a considerable impact. *

Leaving it on and doing nothing is silly.. clearly something is happening or has happened. Investigation is called for to work out the best course of action. Leaving it may be one of those, but sitting back and doing nothing is crazy in light of the price some people are willing to pay for chips these days.


* The classic is the fools that buy gold plated connectors for their audio/whatever system.. yet the equipment has tin or other alloy connectors. Over time the dissimilar connection will degrade and have POORER performance over a matching alloy connection. Mind you, these are the same idiots that spend $100+ on oxygen free mains power cables.


Last edited by JAC on Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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JAC



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to read up on some chemistry!
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Mixeur



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
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Location: Sochaux, France

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chiptalk, can you take a photo of your chip ?
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wepwawet



Joined: 18 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about this.
My guess is that a try to clean the rust will result in a total damaged lid.
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