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| Do you think RoHS is good or bad for electronics? |
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62% |
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| Bad |
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37% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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CPUShack
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 34259
Location: State of Jefferson, USA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: RoHS, What do you think of it |
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I believe it to be complete rubbish, and horrible for electronics, as well as significantly increasing electronic waste.
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hugo929
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 6163
Location: China
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debs3759
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 9477
Location: Northampton, Divided Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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What does RoHS stand for? Is it an American standard for disposal of electronic waste?
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CPUShack
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 34259
Location: State of Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| debs3759 wrote: | | What does RoHS stand for? Is it an American standard for disposal of electronic waste? |
No its a EU thing, Reduction of Hazardous Substances, (namely lead and bromides) that was shoved down the throats of the world.
It makes by law, electronics very unreliable, and cuts their life spans significantly (thus why automtive, military, and other fail safe applications were exempted)
In the military a RoHS qualified part is considered 'defective'
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debs3759
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 9477
Location: Northampton, Divided Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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hmm, I'll have to look that up. I had heard something along those lines but didn't realise it had become law!
I hope I find the UK government vetoed it, but I doubt they are that forward thinking 
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I would vote unknown.. I think time will tell if this was a good idea or a bad idea. Kinda like the lead removal from car fuel, but only to be replaced with other chemicals with unknown long term sideeffects. |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| debs3759 wrote: | hmm, I'll have to look that up. I had heard something along those lines but didn't realise it had become law!
I hope I find the UK government vetoed it, but I doubt they are that forward thinking |
DEBS, RoHS came into for a few years back, and recently the WEEE directive finally passed into law. The idea is all electronic stuff placed on the market in the last few years must be recycled and can not be dumped into landfill.
Manufacturers pay a fee each year to recyclers based on the volume of electronics items they have placed on the marked. They also need to provide information to recyclers on how to deal with their waste, i.e. how to take it appart or a list of substances inside ( not necessarily a parts list).
So the RoHS and the WEEE are only the most recent of a whole RAFT of European legislation in the last 15 years. This stuff is what is behind the CE Marking on most goods. Here are some of the good ones...
LVD - low voltage directive. This and the harmonised standards are the way a manufacturer can PROOVE his product is safe, and therefore you are safe when you are using it as directed.
EMC - electromagnetic compatibility.. most people dont give jack shitt about this. Go turn on your new hairdryer bought in the ladt few years, and stand by your TV bought in the last few years.. no more scrolling bars  That was so 1980's. THAT is the EMC directive in action.
A couple more.. but I wont bore you.
So that CE Marking means the product you are holding is "safe". Of course, many manufacturers put on the marking without even checking they comply, and some put it on knowing it does not comply. The idea is the marketplace is self regulating and self reporting to the authorities.. of course inspections are carried out.. and over the last few years things havent gone out of control. So it is "working".
I am all for it as a consumer.. I want to be safe.
As a manufacturer I think its a pain in the ass. It costs a LOT of money to comply. You meet a lots of knobheads who dont know what they are talking about and it takes up a lot of my time. It sucks. |
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johnorun
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 3364
Location: Chicago, IL- US
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JAC wrote: |
DEBS, RoHS came into for a few years back, and recently the WEEE directive finally passed into law. The idea is all electronic stuff placed on the market in the last few years must be recycled and can not be dumped into landfill.
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Well, the positive side for us is that more chips will avoid landfills and maybe end up safely in our collections. |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| johnorun wrote: | | JAC wrote: |
DEBS, RoHS came into for a few years back, and recently the WEEE directive finally passed into law. The idea is all electronic stuff placed on the market in the last few years must be recycled and can not be dumped into landfill.
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Well, the positive side for us is that more chips will avoid landfills and maybe end up safely in our collections. |
Maybe.. a lot of stuff is still dumped or shipped to china and india. Out of sight is out of mind
Not unlike a pipeline from a nuclear reactor on the coast being extended a couple more miles out to sea a few years ago. This was done to stop the bitching from environmental campaigners about the "higher than normal" radioactive readings on the coastline nearby. |
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smithy
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 2906
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Try soldering on lead free boards. Really tough without turning your iron up so much you risk damaging the components. Recently I was building a couple of audio filters on lead free boards and having to run my iron at 400 degrees+ caused the failure of a polystyrene cap. Very annoying, as it took hours to find the problem...
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kosmokrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 4085
Location: Athens-GR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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i think first of all is our helth and the env health...i dont give a sh!!t about the companies cost for RoHS products......(maybe the final price of the products will grow..) but i believe worth it....
thnx |
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Marcin
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 8519
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't belive to any strange norms like CE, ROHS and others. I'm sure there will be more of them because that is easy way to earn money on us (customers) and manufacturers. Quality didn't grow up but have CE certificate ... waste of time and money.
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donutty
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RoHS might also make people salvage solder now because of it's higher silver content (at least in some formulations) |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| smithy wrote: | | Try soldering on lead free boards. Really tough without turning your iron up so much you risk damaging the components. Recently I was building a couple of audio filters on lead free boards and having to run my iron at 400 degrees+ caused the failure of a polystyrene cap. Very annoying, as it took hours to find the problem... |
Try a good quality 309 mix. I like the Multicore brand. Where we used 1.2mm 60/40 for hand soldering, we now use 1.0 mm and in some cases 0.7mm lead free. Farnell part number for the 1.0mm is 125-7144
With the right soldering iron tip*, a decent iron with thermal feedback, 45W at least, and a good quality cored solder, you should find hand soldering is as easy as with lead. The 309 is also "compatible" with lead solder joints, leaded component legs and lead HASL finishes.
*tip size is essential, more so than lead solder, you must match the size of the tip to the work you are doing. Dwell times are increased with small sizes leading to possible heat damage. Excessively large tip sizes lead to damage with the increased iron temperature whilst maintaining the habitual dwell time.
Btw, we run our Weller irons at 450 degrees Good old fashioned through hole mounting and years of soldering experience - 20 years for me = 95-100% sub assembly production pass. |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Marcin wrote: | | I don't belive to any strange norms like CE, ROHS and others. I'm sure there will be more of them because that is easy way to earn money on us (customers) and manufacturers. Quality didn't grow up but have CE certificate ... waste of time and money. |
Marcin, a parallel example that you will agree with....
Food safety and hygiene. Look at the amount of regulation and inspections there are for food safety. When you go out to eat an any restaurant, you expect the food to be safe to eat and prepared in a hygienic way.
Why not have the same thing for your dishwashers, tv's, mobile phones, hairdryers, curling irons, or whatever... ??
As a consumer there is little cost increase as the standards and European directives give the MINIMUM levels the manufacturer must meet. As consumers we want everything cheaper and better than before, so economic pressures mean in the end we do not see big increases in the price tag. |
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