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iguana
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 2456
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: I'd like to make 4004 breadboard |
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To test my 4004s (or 4040, 8008...) I'm going to make something like
clock oscillator - old CPU - ROM - counter - matrix gate - LED light.
Something really simple which will never blink with a fake onboard 
Probably some one already did it ?
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hugo929
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 6163
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:35 am Post subject: |
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once I had the same thought as yours, but just been lazy and get less spare time for it.
Do you have a complete circuit schematic sheet ?
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Busicom 141-PF replica schema and software can be find on the
www.4004.com |
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Qwerty
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3141
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: |
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IMHO it's not easy to construct even a simple test system. You will need old support IC's that are hard to get.
The 4004/4040 require weird supply voltages and their outputs are not CMOS compatible. That's why you can't connect the modern logic ICs directly to them. Another problem is the generation of the clock signal. You can't just connect a clock oscillator - you'll need to provide a so called "two phase non overlapping clock signal" to the inputs Ф1 and Ф2. |
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donutty
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Qwerty wrote: | IMHO it's not easy to construct even a simple test system. You will need old support IC's that are hard to get.
The 4004/4040 require weird supply voltages and their outputs are not CMOS compatible. That's why you can't connect the modern logic ICs directly to them. Another problem is the generation of the clock signal. You can't just connect a clock oscillator - you'll need to provide a so called "two phase non overlapping clock signal" to the inputs Ф1 and Ф2. |
My thoughts exactly... the problem with older chips is the non-standard voltages.
It can be done of course, but it's not as easy as TTL. |
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Borris70
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 988
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: |
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some years ago, the was a construction plan for a 4004 tic-tac-toe machine
http://home.comcast.net/~jsweinrich/
unfortunately most links don't work anymore. maybe you can contact the owner
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Borris70
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: |
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and a 4004 nixie clock
http://home.comcast.net/~4004clock/
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kosmokrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 4085
Location: Athens-GR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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well i have some little board with 4004 cpu used....
its from an old taximeter machine!!!
the 4004 stands on blue socket....
i have no idea or datasheets about the voltage and other things of the board but i think my friend they donate to me sure can help me to see this old vacum display light up with numbers again...
here is some photos of my board!
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think this task is not difficult, just time cosuming and you need to have a good idea of what you are going to do. The nixie clock idea is a good one.
Anyway.. as you see there the crazy voltages and clock signals are not difficult to create. Some time ago I made that stupid eprom programmer... ok it was manual programming with jumpers, but it worked, and it was totally pointless so I lost interest in it. |
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johnorun
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 3364
Location: Chicago, IL- US
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kosmokrator wrote: | well i have some little board with 4004 cpu used....
its from an old taximeter machine!!!
the 4004 stands on blue socket....
i have no idea or datasheets about the voltage and other things of the board but i think my friend they donate to me sure can help me to see this old vacum display light up with numbers again...
here is some photos of my board! |
Nice find, Mike!
Who would ever guess a Taxi Meter had a board with a C4004??? |
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lither
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1362
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Qwerty wrote: | | Another problem is the generation of the clock signal. You can't just connect a clock oscillator - you'll need to provide a so called "two phase non overlapping clock signal" to the inputs Ф1 and Ф2. |
how about a 4201 groupbuy?
edit
it seems no one interested in a 4201 groupbuy, i cancel it and will bid it myself |
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| johnorun wrote: | | kosmokrator wrote: | well i have some little board with 4004 cpu used....
its from an old taximeter machine!!!
the 4004 stands on blue socket....
i have no idea or datasheets about the voltage and other things of the board but i think my friend they donate to me sure can help me to see this old vacum display light up with numbers again...
here is some photos of my board! |
Nice find, Mike!
Who would ever guess a Taxi Meter had a board with a C4004??? |
Kienzle in Germany did it. But before now all Kienzle taximeters sell at hundreds - they only put plastics in as far as I learned. |
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kosmokrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 4085
Location: Athens-GR
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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its an taximeter from Kienzle made in 1975-76 wepwawet.....
true....they have an p4002-1 and an p4004 on board this old models |
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