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sammyc
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1668
Location: Scottish Borders
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 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: Certificate of authenticity |
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As we come into the dawn of a new era (CPU Collecting) CPU's, I believe, are being forged/faked more and more all over the world, thus making it hard for the semi professional collector to tell the difference between what is a REAL CPU and what is a FAKE CPU.
It may be a unique business oppurtunity for somebody with the knowledge and technical know-how to provide Certificate of authenticity for rare CPU's.
For example - the 4004 Grey trace CPU - certainly the most sought after chip could quite easily be faked. Even if it is on the board it was designed to run - who says this wasn't faked?
So.. If I was to fork out $400 on a Ceramic grey trace 4004 or more - How would I know I wasn't being taken for a ride. I don't know how these work, or how to tell the difference between a real or a fake...
Perhaps some of you do know the different tale tale signs.
Suggestions? |
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Until you have the chip in your hands you can't be sure if it is fake or real.
The only thing I know is put it into a system and test it.
Unfortunately you can't decide a fake from a broken one but if it works ... |
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sammyc
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1668
Location: Scottish Borders
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| What I intended was it would be nice to have a 'universal' procedure in which the 'seller' can authenticate any one CPU. |
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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aaah!
there's only one universal and internetional system established:
it is named confidence.
as soon as all existing eg. c4004 are known and documented we can create a catalogue but until then... |
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sammyc
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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Location: Scottish Borders
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: |
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That auction looks ok sammy. I would not buy it though!
Confidence is all there is I agree, a certificate is just as open to abuse as it is to remark old chips. Think about it for one second.. find an old cheap chip and remark it to one worth many times its real value. It should be easy! This happens sometimes with commercial IC's. I dont like the old cpu markings and that is the only reason why I will never spend anything more than loose change on “old” cpu’s.
I much prefer the 286-early pentiums -> Nice markings, nice to handle, cheap and a heck of lot more interesting to me. Maybe it stems from my first computer I bought when I was much younger, a 286, then I rapidly moved through the CPU's. I shudder to think of how much money I spent on computer parts since then. To me collecting this series of computer chips is like having the computers I could never afford back then. When I had a 486 sx33 I DREAMED of affording a DX cpu!! Even at University we had Amstrad 1640's as terminals to log into the department server. There were 5 486 DX50's used only for engineering drawings and we never got to use them until our second year. Of course the department eventually replaced the Amstrads with "real" computers as Intel and AMD raced each other with the 486's, it was like a flood! Computers, as we know them now, also started to get cheap as Intel and AMD and the others put Moores Law to the test. (in my four years at University I started with a 486DX 33 and left with Pentium II SEC ( many computers inbetween!!) - oh how I also hate that slot1, maybe the worst cpu package design mistake ever made by Intel! )
I guess the point of my rant is to get some of you to think about what you collect and why. It is very tempting to collect everything, but all you will be doing is spending a lot of money in the long run. I really enjoy what I collect, its fun and cheap and oneday I hope I’ll be able to bore my grandchildren with it all.  |
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| JAC wrote: | | I really enjoy what I collect, its fun and cheap and oneday I hope I’ll be able to bore my grandchildren with it all. |
Same as mine, but although I don't know a 4004 from original use I enjoy especially to get those extremely old chips.
When I retire one of those chips will be the penny black...
And to proove the authenticy I also collect old computers to test the chips.
I'm still missing a 8008 and 8080 machine:-(
collecting chips is (sometimes) like digging for gold or archeology:-) |
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sammyc
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1668
Location: Scottish Borders
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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COA in the chip collecting business is inevitable, like it or not, it's an oppurtunity for someone with the knowledge.
As for what I collect - It started with 486, Pentium, AMD K6 K62, And Cyrix MII...
But over the years it has widened into 386->1Ghz and above. And I am really stating to run out of things to collect (except brand new CPU's).. Which is why I have started looking earlier than 386... |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| wepwawet wrote: | | JAC wrote: | | I really enjoy what I collect, its fun and cheap and oneday I hope I’ll be able to bore my grandchildren with it all. |
Same as mine, but although I don't know a 4004 from original use I enjoy especially to get those extremely old chips.
When I retire one of those chips will be the penny black...
And to proove the authenticy I also collect old computers to test the chips.
I'm still missing a 8008 and 8080 machine:-(
collecting chips is (sometimes) like digging for gold or archeology:-) |
Yes, without a doubt I can see people paying enormous amounts for original cpus. We'll never know how many were reprocessed for gold recovery.
With regards to testing old chips I think it would be fairly easy to verify with some dedicated hardware. It may be possible with a Microchip PIC/embedded controller or even another computer to test a few functions. This is the only way, electronic components will not last for decades and decades, they will fail, then all that hardware you collected will just be another pile of vintage components. It is good to test them now when you put them into your collection, but dont rely on them to keep working for ever.
COA's are not inevitable, I frankly would not pay any attention to them. I would be more interested in the person selling me the chips and why. |
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wepwawet
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 3019
Location: Seligenstadt - Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Of course all chips will fail sometimes but I think these olden BIG transistors, produced on HEAVY and RAW machines will work much longer than nowadays billion-transistor-chips.
I have tested more or less hundred cpus and more ram chips, none of the old cpus failed, just some 4116 ram chips (that were desoldered.
Anyway, what I buy gets checked if possible AND: It is fantastic and you may cry tears of joy see a white 6502 playing scramble on a pet or a grey 4004 booting in a ProLog:-)
So far that's enough for me and you never know what test equipment will be there in 20 years to test 386, 486 or pentiums. In that massive variety!
So in the future the question will be the same. |
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