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jamesjameson
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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Athlon XP-M 3000+ on Asus A7N8X and overclock/rating |
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Hi guys, I am loving this website, really wonderful!
I have a question for you...
I have an Athlon XP 2800+ on my Asus A7N8X Motherboard, I found a seller that can sell me an Athlon XP-M 3000+ pretty described here on this website.
Athlon XP-M 3000+ normally works at 133 MHz x 16.5 (multipl) = 2.2 GHz with 266 MHz FSB and 1.65 Vcore
He told me that he overclocked (on desktop motherboard) it stably at:
(1) 200 MHz x 11 (multipl) = 2.2 GHz with 400 MHz FSB and 1.55 Vcore
AND
(2) 200 MHz x 12 (multipl) = 2.4 GHz with 400 MHz FSB and 1.65 Vcore
Is it really possible?!
L1 and L2 Caches, Vcore are the same of XP 3200+ and all two are barton 0.13 micron... 
He told me that:
(1) is like an Athlon XP 3200+ (barton) standard desktop CPU
(2) is like an Athlon XP 3400+ (it does not exists!) desktop CPU (or more)
Are these rating right?!
Do you think it could really have the same performances of Athlon XP 3200+ (barton) or even better Athlon XP 3400+ or more?!?!
Do you think I can notice good performances increasing respect my Athlon XP 2800+ (only 333 FSB)?
Please help me, I am confused...
Thank you very much to all! |
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Wizzard1
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Boston MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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The A7N8X is not an overclocking board- You cannt modify the voltage and the FSB without modifying the pins.
You will not see a big difference between your 2800+ and even the "3400+" processor...
If you are going to modify pins, do it with the processor you already own!  |
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thomsonicus
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 226
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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it is quite possible to get better performance than a factory 3200+, yes. i think that the performance raise will not be THAT noticable at FSB400 (remember to keep RAM and FSB at same speed, running async slows ram down a lot!). If you had some better DDRs, like 433 or higher the raise would become noticable during gaming.
IMO - if you can swap for nearly free go for it, otherwise why not overclock you own CPU and get the same results?
@Wizzard1 - I had a A7N8X non-deluxe w/XP2000+ (Thorton) and I could modify everyhing - cpu voltage, chipset voltage, ddr voltage, multiplier, etc etc
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Wizzard1 wrote: | The A7N8X is not an overclocking board- You cannt modify the voltage and the FSB without modifying the pins.
You will not see a big difference between your 2800+ and even the "3400+" processor...
If you are going to modify pins, do it with the processor you already own! |
I did not know! Can't I?! Why?!
Are you sure?! I tell you why you confused me more too...
In the BIOS menu "advanced chipset features" I can set "CPU Vcore Setting" on "Menu" and so the setting "CPU Vcore" is unlocked and I can choose from 1.650 V to 1.825 V (steps of 0.025 V).
In the BIOS menu "advanced chipset features" I have also the setting "CPU Frequency multiple Setting" and if I also set it to "Menu" I can choose to set "CPU External Freq. (MHz)" setting from 100 MHz to 250 MHz (steps variables from 1 MHz to 5 MHz).... the double of this value should be FSB frequency.
I try to explain better: now this setting is 166 because my Athlon XP 2800+ has a 333 FSB even if I have 2 GB dual channel DDR 400 recently installed and RAM (I notice it only now) runs taking infos by SPD and works at 2 x 200 MHz (400 MHz).
[Moreover I think it should work better syncronous (I will put it at 166*2 now like FSB)]
So I think I could have Motherboard settings to make right setting for overclocking Athlon MP.... I hope!
Please confirm me or tell me it's all wrong!! 
The real question is if it is possible that overclock stable, if it is real what that vendor told me and if my A7N8X can support Athlon MP like all other Athlon XP versions.
Finally if I can notice some performance increasing from this upgrade and if this upgrade is better or worst of a genuine Athlon XP 3200+
Thank you again guys! |
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| thomsonicus wrote: | it is quite possible to get better performance than a factory 3200+, yes. i think that the performance raise will not be THAT noticable at FSB400 (remember to keep RAM and FSB at same speed, running async slows ram down a lot!). If you had some better DDRs, like 433 or higher the raise would become noticable during gaming.
IMO - if you can swap for nearly free go for it, otherwise why not overclock you own CPU and get the same results?
@Wizzard1 - I had a A7N8X non-deluxe w/XP2000+ (Thorton) and I could modify everyhing - cpu voltage, chipset voltage, ddr voltage, multiplier, etc etc |
Thank you very much for suppurt thomsonicus: I tryed two years ago to overclock my Athlon XP 2800+... I think to remember my CPU is multiplier locked so I could only increase FSB and memory frequency but I don't remember so good and I was not an expert at that time (not very much today too!!).
I think to remember multiplier can be unlocked manipulating CPU or doing some bridges on the holes on the socket but FSB can be changed easyly from BIOS.
I thought there was a multiplier locking IN the CPU and I thought Athlon MP can be manipolated easyer on multiplier and, being a MP and warming less, it could be more overclockable.... I hope it is so and it is not a Motherboard problem like Wizzard1 talk about!
Thank you all guys!
PS: I have some CPU you have not picture on the CPU description... do you like to have some pictures or it is not interesting? Where can I send, eventually, if you want?!
PS: thank you for remembering RAM and FSB running sync is better! |
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Wizzard1
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Boston MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I was gambling that his A7N8X was an OEM board, namely the -LA version They are far more common than the enthusiant version. |
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Wizzard1 wrote: | | I was gambling that his A7N8X was an OEM board, namely the -LA version They are far more common than the enthusiant version. |
I did not understood this... sorry, I am Italian... 
What is -LA version?!?!
This is a normal, simple, Asus A7N8X, NO delux, NO Nforce 400, etc...
I buyed it like motherboard of my assembled PC.
What about my other questions? |
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Cobracon
Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Roosterpoot, MS; US of A (Obama country!)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| thomsonicus wrote: | | (remember to keep RAM and FSB at same speed, running async slows ram down a lot!) |
Running the RAM @ 1:1 (syncronous) can force it to operate at a higher than stable speed, causing premature instability and a lower clock speed. Slowing down the RAM with a different divider ratio will allow a higher CPU External Frequency, which translates to a higher/faster stable CPU clock speed. The RAM speed you lose initially will be regained as you increase the CPU External Frequency. This phenomenon can be verified by doing a before and after test with CPUID or CPU-Z. I have an Athlon 64 2.2GHz 3200+ (socket 754) CPU running at 2.7GHz - stable. The DDR 400 RAM is set to run as DDR 333, and after the RAM underclock + the CPU overclock the RAM speed tops out at 193.5MHZ (387MHz), vs 200MHz (400MHz) in default mode. As a bonus, I can run the RAM at tight (fast) timings: 2.5/3/2/5. I can easily run a little faster, but choose not to do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalCPUID 4.14.2.404 (C) 2002-2007 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
----------------------------------------------------------------
OS : Windows XP Professional SP3 [ 5.1 Build 2600 ]
Date : 2008/06/04 23:11:06
CPU Name : AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice)
Vendor String : AuthenticAMD
Name String : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
Architecture : x86
Process Rule : 90 nm
Platform : Socket 754
CPU Type : Original OEM processor [0]
Number (Total) : 1
Physical Core : 1
Family : Fh
Ext. Family : Fh
Model : Ch
Ext. Model : 2Ch
Stepping : 2h
Ext. Stepping : 2h
APIC : 00h
Brand ID : 04h
Feature : MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 MMX+ 3DNow! 3DNow!+ NX AMD64
PowerManagement : PowerNow!/Cool'n'Quiet
Current Original
Clock : 2709.02 MHz 2200.00 MHz
System Clock : 246.27 MHz 200.00 MHz
HT Link : 985.10 MHz 800.00 MHz
Multiplier: 11.00 11.00 Data Rate : HT
Over Clock : 23.14 %
L1 I-Cache : 64 KB
L1 D-Cache : 64 KB
L2 Cache : 512 KB [Full:2709.02 MHz]
Memory : 2048 MB
----------------------------------------------------------------
Chipset Information
----------------------------------------------------------------
Chipset : NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb
North Bridge : [10DE:00E1.A1] NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb
South Bridge : [10DE:00E0.A2] NVIDIA nForce3 250Gb
Video Chip : [1002:4153.00] ATI RADEON 9550
----------------------------------------------------------------
System Information by DMI (Desktop Management Interface)
----------------------------------------------------------------
SM BIOS Version : 2.3
BIOS Vendor : Phoenix Technologies, LTD
BIOS Version : 6.00 PG
BIOS Date : 09/16/2005
BIOS ROM Size : 256 KB
Mother Vendor : ECS
Mother Product : nForce3-A
Mother Version :
CPU Socket : Socket 754
CPU Vendor : AMD
CPU Version : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
Current Clock : 2695 MHz
External Clock : 245 MHz Max Clock : 3000 MHz
CPU-Z:
CPU-Z 1.45 report file
Processor(s)
Number of processors 1
Number of cores 1 per processor
Number of threads 1 per processor
Name AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Code Name Venice
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
Package Socket 754
Family/Model/Stepping F.C.2
Extended Family/Model F.2C
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping DH-E6
Technology 90 nm
Core Speed 2709.1 MHz
Multiplier x Bus speed 11.0 x 246.3 MHz
HT Link speed 985.1 MHz
Stock frequency 2200 MHz Instruction sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache (per processor) 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache (per processor) 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache (per processor) 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
Chipset & Memory
Northbridge NVIDIA nForce3 250 rev. A1
Southbridge NVIDIA nForce3 MCP rev. A2
Graphic Interface AGP
AGP Revision 3.0
AGP Transfer Rate 8x
AGP Side Band Addressing supported, enabled
Memory Type DDR
Memory Size 2048 MBytes
Memory Frequency 193.5 MHz (CPU/14)
CAS# Latency (tCL) 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 2 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 5 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 10 clocks
DRAM Idle Timer 16 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 2T
System
System Manufacturer ECS
System Name nForce3-A
System S/N
Mainboard Vendor ECS
Mainboard Model nForce3-A
BIOS Vendor Phoenix Technologies, LTD
BIOS Version 6.00 PG
BIOS Date 09/16/2005
Memory SPD
Module 1 DDR, PC3200 (200 MHz), 1024 MBytes, OCZ
Module 2 DDR, PC3200 (200 MHz), 1024 MBytes, OCZ
Software
Windows Version Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
DirectX Version 9.0c
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"Have you scanned the RAM timings for Operator's Headspace?? Too much real estate between the audio collectors will block the connection which allows proper operation of your computer."_Cobra
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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I am not so good in tests and overclock but thi is very interesting, thanks!
Anyway now I have an Athlon XP 2800+ NOT overclocked so it has 333 FSB and I have DDR 400 RAM so RAM runs syncronously at 333 Mhz.
Do you think it is better for me? Or better I change it?!
From your post I understand that if I increase FSB the DDR RAM in syncronous mode could exceed 400 MHz and give me stability problems.... so it is better to overclock FSB and let RAM working asincronous so it does not exceed his standard 400 MHz or his stability frequency, then I could improve CAS, etc settings....
Is it exact or I did not understand?!
My firsts answers was about overclocking Athlon XP-M 3000+ putting it on a Asus A7N8X desktop motherboard....
Have you something to suggest/answer me?!
Please have a look of the bold lines in my previous posts, please!
I take some from my posts:
I have an Athlon XP 2800+ on my Asus A7N8X Motherboard, I found a seller that can sell me an Athlon XP-M 3000+ pretty described here on this website.
Athlon XP-M 3000+ normally works at 133 MHz x 16.5 (multipl) = 2.2 GHz with 266 MHz FSB and 1.65 Vcore
He told me that he overclocked (on desktop motherboard) it stably at:
(1) 200 MHz x 11 (multipl) = 2.2 GHz with 400 MHz FSB and 1.55 Vcore
AND
(2) 200 MHz x 12 (multipl) = 2.4 GHz with 400 MHz FSB and 1.65 Vcore
Is it really possible?!
L1 and L2 Caches, Vcore are the same of XP 3200+ and all two are barton 0.13 micron...
He told me that:
(1) is like an Athlon XP 3200+ (barton) standard desktop CPU
(2) is like an Athlon XP 3400+ (it does not exists!) desktop CPU (or more)
Are these rating right?!
Do you think it could really have the same performances of Athlon XP 3200+ (barton) or even better Athlon XP 3400+ or more?!?!
Do you think I can notice good performances increasing respect my Athlon XP 2800+ (only 333 FSB)?
Please help me, I am confused...
Thank you very much to all! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| The RAM set-up like you have it should work just fine because of the frequency headroom you have built in. As for the compatability of or the feasability of your present CPU substitution, I don't have a clue. |
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: |
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I buyed it... I saw Athlon-MP has unlocked multiplier and the seller permit to send it back if it does not overclock like described!
I will tell you my results! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking that seems so strange it was born to run with 133 x 2 FSB (multiplier 16.5) and they make it run with 200 x 2 FSB (multiplier 11 or even 12!) .... the same resulting real frequency of 2200 MHz (or 2400 MHz !) but so big FSB increasing!
Boh, waiting and hopeing it runs well! |
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thomsonicus
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 226
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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All SocketA processors (from duron600 to athlon3200+), and I really Do mean all, have this thing when running memory in asyncro mode that they tend to slow down quite a lot. You may get a bit higher memory read speed, but then again you get much higher memory latencies so you end up loosing more than you earned. When I was frying my 1700+ JUIHB (133x11) I had to stop at about 230x11 only because my ram wouldn't keep up with the CPU FSB and it was complete nonsence to run it asynchro. The same situation was with such slow CPUs like Duron800 - read speeds were almost the same, but running at PC200 gave a much lower latency time.
A note about unlocking: it IS possible to unlock certain processors by modding the L1 pins on it. Durons based on the Spitfire core were easiest to unlock - u just had to join the L1 pins with a pencil and boof - you had your multiplier unlocked (well, part of it really. you could change it about 2.0 up and down). With plastic AthlonXP it's a bit more difficult. First you need to use conductive paste or something else as the pencil trick doesn't work on them. The second thing is that some XPs were only locked, and some were superlocked which basically meant 'too much hassle to do it'. I've unlocked a couple of Thoroughbred-B's, modded a Thorton 2000+ into a full Barton 2500+ plus multiplier unlock (whole 512kb cache working!), and unlocked multiple Durons and Atlons.
-=link to pin painting guide for athlons=-
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jamesjameson
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| thomsonicus wrote: | All SocketA processors (from duron600 to athlon3200+), and I really Do mean all, have this thing when running memory in asyncro mode that they tend to slow down quite a lot. You may get a bit higher memory read speed, but then again you get much higher memory latencies so you end up loosing more than you earned. When I was frying my 1700+ JUIHB (133x11) I had to stop at about 230x11 only because my ram wouldn't keep up with the CPU FSB and it was complete nonsence to run it asynchro. The same situation was with such slow CPUs like Duron800 - read speeds were almost the same, but running at PC200 gave a much lower latency time.
A note about unlocking: it IS possible to unlock certain processors by modding the L1 pins on it. Durons based on the Spitfire core were easiest to unlock - u just had to join the L1 pins with a pencil and boof - you had your multiplier unlocked (well, part of it really. you could change it about 2.0 up and down). With plastic AthlonXP it's a bit more difficult. First you need to use conductive paste or something else as the pencil trick doesn't work on them. The second thing is that some XPs were only locked, and some were superlocked which basically meant 'too much hassle to do it'. I've unlocked a couple of Thoroughbred-B's, modded a Thorton 2000+ into a full Barton 2500+ plus multiplier unlock (whole 512kb cache working!), and unlocked multiple Durons and Atlons.
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What about Athlon XP-M 3000+ ?
Are really all XP-MP multiplier unlocked?
Do you think is possible to put FSB from 133 x2 to 200 x 2?!
It seems so big difference but anyway it seems of so similar contruction project to Athlon XP 3200+ (barton) that runs with 200 x 2 FSB!
What do you think about this?! |
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thomsonicus
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 226
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I dont think all Athlon-MPs have their multiplier unlocked. All Athlon-XP-Mobile have unlocked multipliers because that was their energy saving feature. It IS possible to overclock CPU FSB from 133 to 200. As I have written previously, my own Athlon XP 1700+ which had a default of 133 and multiplier 11 ran at about FSB220 without any problems. For me the diffrence was big because the memory read speeds rose from about 1900mb/sek to abou 3300mb/sec. I was using quite a good mainboard to achieve this - Epox 8rda3i based on nForce2Ultra400 chipset+SPP southbridge (poor quality capacitors though).
What about XP-M 3000? Nothing, really. Personally I think it wasn't any better than my 1700+, only the 512kb L2 cache was better. I bet there wouldn't be any problems with running both at around 2400mhz, only a good mainboard and good cooling (I was running on a Titan TTC-Cu5Tb and temps were below 48'C when 2200mhz in stress). The Thorton I had also was o/c'd from FSB133 to 200 without any problems; I had a Duron700 running stable at FSB143 on a K7S5A with modded bios and a v-mod.
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