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Neon_WA
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 7146
Location: Margaret River, West Australia
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: Stocktake of Pentium 200 & 233 |
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i was amazed checking my collection, that 40% of my 200 & 233 pentiums were FAKE 
Out of the 12 pentiums (200 & 233MHz) 5 of them are fakes.
Living in Perth, Western Australia it gives a unique understanding of how prevalent the practice was back then, even in a place isolated as here.
u mite want to check ur collections 
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There are 10 types of people in this world:
those who understand binary and those who don't. ~Author Unknown
http://www.x86-guide.net/Neon-WA/en/collection.html |
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donutty
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stocktake of Pentium 200 & 233 |
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| Neon_WA wrote: | i was amazed checking my collection, that 40% of my 200 & 233 pentiums were FAKE
Out of the 12 pentiums (200 & 233MHz) 5 of them are fakes.
Living in Perth, Western Australia it gives a unique understanding of how prevalent the practice was back then, even in a place isolated as here.
u mite want to check ur collections |
Strewth!
Can you give some tips on how to identify the fakes? |
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Cpuswe
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 2214
Location: Karlskrona, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the time its the print or laser etching that gives it away. Otherwise its pure stupidity by the faker when using s-specs or model numbers that are impossible.
Its hard to describe when it comes to spot it on the print. Its just a feeling you get when you see it, probably because you have seen that many non-fakes, the fakes stand out. (Of course there must exist fakes that still are undetected.)
I try to document all fakes i come across so that other collectors might be saved from spending money on something that is not what i say it is.
http://www.chipdb.org/cat------fakes------1.htm
Some examples...
Mostly its printing like this, where its just that, a print, not a laser engraving. The letters are not deep enough.
The white logo can also be a tell sign. Irregular letters, they easily wear of.
Or it could be that the font is wrong. No slashed zeros for example
Or the font is just wrong
Then there are the plain stupid ones that use the wrong s-specs or part numbers.
Sspec SZ934 belongs to the DX2ODPR50
SL33H are not a Pentium s-spec. SL33H belongs to FW82443BX a Intel 440BX AGPset Host Bridge/Controller
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My collection: http://www.cpucollection.se :::::: http://www.chipdb.org Photos of chips you never knew existed. Now over 6000 different chips in the database. |
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johnorun
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 3364
Location: Chicago, IL- US
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have to ask again: ?Why would anyone make a FAKE of a common everyday chip? The cost to Re-print/Re-engrave a ceramic chip would require a major investment in the tools and machinery needed, plus the time to do it.
What can one gain by this, unless it's a forgery of a RARE chip, like a C4004 ???  
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that there are that many common chip fakes...it just doesn't make sense.
Hacking a cell phone to get free services or a bank's computer system for free cash would take less effort and provide far more gain or notoriety for the culprit...
>>>please, fill me in... 
"Clueless in Seattle" |
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kosmokrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 4085
Location: Athens-GR
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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i have the same thought as u john.....
nice examples but i think intel make this.,..
for example the first pics of 80386 will see a perfect example ...
they have just printed lots with the dx-16 mhz and instead to throw off many thousants of this ceramic stuff remarked the ceramic shield...
the chip after is the original dx-20 inside i believe...
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and the paint stuf in this chip look so intel "istic"...and if its printed after how is from the back?
if have the same color is so difficult to paint a chip in booth sides without paint the pins and the goldcap....
just a think.....
sorry for poor lang
friendly and respectively to all collectors
Mike |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| johnorun wrote: | I have to ask again: ?Why would anyone make a FAKE of a common everyday chip? The cost to Re-print/Re-engrave a ceramic chip would require a major investment in the tools and machinery needed, plus the time to do it.
"Clueless in Seattle" |
Pretty simple dude.. back in the early/mid 90's the price difference between speeds was not 10's of dollars, but into the 100's for some parts. So a lick of grey paint and a handy engraver and you just made extra cash.
So those are the fakes from "back then".. we have already started to see fakes produced in response to collector requests NOW ( i.e. 386 DX4 anyone??? ). I have also seen SX808 486 professionally re-engraved for some reason. ( the font was wrong, but the chip was very well done ) |
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thomsonicus
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 226
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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does anyone collect "fakes only"? I know people collect them "by the way", but is there anyone who collects only fakes?
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Power without the price. |
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johnorun
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 3364
Location: Chicago, IL- US
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JAC wrote: |
Pretty simple dude.. back in the early/mid 90's the price difference between speeds was not 10's of dollars, but into the 100's for some parts. So a lick of grey paint and a handy engraver and you just made extra cash.
So those are the fakes from "back then".. we have already started to see fakes produced in response to collector requests NOW ( i.e. 386 DX4 anyone??? ). I have also seen SX808 486 professionally re-engraved for some reason. ( the font was wrong, but the chip was very well done ) |
Ok JAC, that might make sense to a major corporate buyer in the 90's that was buying a ton of machines using state of the art CPUs, but how were these sold?--by a hustler in a back alley? ..and were these counterfeit CPUs sold in genuine Intel counterfeit packaging that was good enough to fool a sophisticated buyer??
I still can't see how these could be sold in enough volume to make all the effort worthwhile...!?#^^...or maybe it's just that I would be too much a lazy-ass to try it...heheehe 
On the collector level, based on what we've seen being offered from some Chinese sellers, I don't doubt that "collectible" chips are being altered, since they can be made and sold on an as-needed basis. By the time the buyer has realized the fake, the seller is no where to be found.  |
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el_gecko
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1553
Location: Nice, France
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Cpuswe
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 2214
Location: Karlskrona, Sweden
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johnorun
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 3364
Location: Chicago, IL- US
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Are fakes ever found soldered onto circuit boards or are they usually found singly "on sale"? |
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Neon_WA
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 7146
Location: Margaret River, West Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JAC wrote: |
So those are the fakes from "back then".. |
All the fakes i have ended up with have come out of puters used in the family home locally. So i expect there was dodgy system builders around buying remarked chips off a main source.
It is no different from all the pirate software sellers around on eBay. They arn't making it.. just buying from a source and reselling for a profit.
Nearly 50% of XP & Office selling on OZ eBay in the past 6 months is "fake", but i can pick them pretty well if they have a good pic up 
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There are 10 types of people in this world:
those who understand binary and those who don't. ~Author Unknown
http://www.x86-guide.net/Neon-WA/en/collection.html |
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JAC
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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The *ENTIRE* chip manufacturing industry has a small problem with fake/grey/ghost chips. I remember discussing this some time ago somewhere on this forum.
IF you buy real cheap, beware....If you are lucky, you get a chip that works. If you are really unlucky, you get semis with absolutely no die inside them, just a husk essentially. Nice!
There are parallels in every market sector, most notably in China recently, remember the contaminated milk products where the suppliers put melamine in the milk products to improve the quality test reports. |
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tlccomp
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: Southeast Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JAC wrote: | | The *ENTIRE* chip manufacturing industry has a small problem with fake/grey/ghost chips. |
Jac is 100% right...
I was one of those "dodgy" types buying "grey" market chips. Back then you couldn't buy just one chip from a distributor. You had to buy a tray and the cost was crazy. The big OEM's would order thousands of CPU's direct from Intel to get the best price breaks. Then take what they really needed and dump the rest into the "grey market" There were chip brokers who moved chips form to the little guys and to the remarkers/forgers. The price difference from 25 MHz to 33MHz was a couple hundred dollars.
I also remember chip brokers getting robbed on a regular basis because of the easy money to be made. They would get held up. All their CPU's and memory taken and dumped back onto the market (usually to another broker). Back then a new 16 Meg memory module (4x32) was $1100-$1200 new... easy to sell to someone else for $800. Alot easier than robbing banks.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity. |
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klamath
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Albury - NSW - Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Neon, from my side of Aus, I had purchased a 'matching set' of Pentium Pro 200's a while that were retired from a server in Sydney.
When I eventually got around to cleaning them up. I noticed that the writing on one of them was slightly crooked.
On closer inspection, the one on the left in these photos:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=60470&l=fc916&id=567671727
turned out to be a remarked 180 - 512K. It was a pretty poor job too, as you can see.
I haven't had a chance to test them yet though. |
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