Anyone can help identify this TTL and IBM chips?

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Mizutsuki Raki



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Anyone can help identify this TTL and IBM chips? Reply with quote

Anyone can help identify this TTL and IBM chips?

I hope know plastic TTL chip's model name (e.g.74LS47... 49XX... etc.)

And... is there any catalogs of IBM custom chips?
These chips are in IBM 5100 ROS(ROM) module.

[Added...]
there is some information on this
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/ibm_5110/ibm5100_1.html
page, but link to 'ibmparts.txt' is broken.

[Re-added...]
http://www.kbdbabel.org/kbdbabel-ibm-part-number-list
I googled it, then this document comes out.

Thanks
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UMMR



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 381
Location: Udine, ITALY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
sadly there isn't a catalog of custom IBM parts.
Based on my personal experience:
the 2 digit pair after "IBM" identifies the manufacturing/assembly factory;
many IBM 14 and IBM 98 chips are MOS devices;
many (not all) IBM 14 chips are memories.
DIPs with custom IBM markings are in fact standard TTLs with customized numbering, they are called Vendor Transistor Logic by IBM.
"Metal can" IBM chips, MST-styled, are usually gate arrays, either bipolar, MOS or CMOS; the 1st line identifies the specific mask used in that chip's fabrication process. The 1st series of IBM MOS arrays is called "Dutchess logic" by IBM engineers.
You can find more infos about IBM part numbering in this page of my website: http://ummr.altervista.org/ibmtechviews.htm.
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Mizutsuki Raki



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Thanks for your detailed answer! Reply with quote

UMMR wrote:
Hello,
sadly there isn't a catalog of custom IBM parts.
Based on my personal experience:
the 2 digit pair after "IBM" identifies the manufacturing/assembly factory;
many IBM 14 and IBM 98 chips are MOS devices;
many (not all) IBM 14 chips are memories.
DIPs with custom IBM markings are in fact standard TTLs with customized numbering, they are called Vendor Transistor Logic by IBM.
"Metal can" IBM chips, MST-styled, are usually gate arrays, either bipolar, MOS or CMOS; the 1st line identifies the specific mask used in that chip's fabrication process. The 1st series of IBM MOS arrays is called "Dutchess logic" by IBM engineers.
You can find more infos about IBM part numbering in this page of my website: http://ummr.altervista.org/ibmtechviews.htm.


Thanks for your detailed answer! Very Happy

Well, are IBM metal-packaged chips easy to gone bad?
In IBM 5100, I think that IBM used the same chips on each ROS module(common ROS on a processor board, executable ROS and non-executable ROS which contains BASIC).
My IBM 5100 can't recognize the non-executable ROS module. However, the other ROS' works 'very' well.
I hope to listen your opinion.
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Birdman.



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 833
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure that it's not a problem with dirty connectors or some bad contact in wires?
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UMMR



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 381
Location: Udine, ITALY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello
in my personal experience IBM metal-can chips are reliable, check/clean the connectors for dirt and dust.
Also check carefully the connections from the card's PCB to the backplane connector. They are susceptible of oxidation. Remove the backplane connector cap and clean all the contacts.
Several RAM cards from my vintage System/36, not working at first look, "magically" came back to life after an accurate cleansing.
Dust and fragments of that black insulating "foam" widely used by IBM are a great treat for the old systems. Year by year, the "foam" deteriorates in small fragments, like a black dust, or transforms itself in a sticky black mass.
I hope Your 5100 will resuscitate! Great machine!
Paolo
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Mizutsuki Raki



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone.
I'll clean it and check it twice

(Umm... but ROS error is very common)
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